The simple local websites that earn a thousand dollars a month each What's up? What's up Nick? Oh, loper here. Welcome to the side house of show part of the entrepreneur Podcast network because you're nine to five maybe two living But you're five to nine makes you alive. It's one twenty one We aired an episode called rank and ranked and it was one of the most popular episodes of the year and 15-second summary of that side also is you create a website for a local service business like Dallas carpet cleaning as I think the example we talked about you get it ranking well in Google and then you rent it out to A qualified local service provider that is hungry for more Now today's guest is a side hustle show listener who heard that episode and took action on it in a big way Since then she's built out 45 of these local sites that once they have a tenant in place So it's be earn an average of a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars first site per month from blackbird SEO.com Meow reos welcome to the side hustle show thanks Nick for having me here I am excited for this one stick around. We're talking niche in a location selection for this rank and rent business We're talking now is a local SEO process and I had to find reliable suppliers because after all those are the businesses that are paying The rent here and your listener only bonus for this week is a list of 25 Nitches that could be ripe for a rank and rent you can download that for free at the show notes for this episode at side hustle nation.com slash meow it's m-i-a-o Or just follow yes is that right? Yes, okay Am I a or just follow the link in the episode description and you get right over there So where I want to start is so you hear this episode with Luke Vandervere I think it's 448 rank and rent and You say okay, I'm gonna give this a shot. It's just three months in this is crazy your site first or second local site starts to gain some visibility And this local government reaches out and say hey, we need you to bid on this project Can you talk about what happens now? Yeah, well that was a kind of a surreal experience and there was a three month in one off that builder site and Yeah, like one day I've just got a Quot requests saying that hey, you're invited to this government tender project is demolisher building of a school Yeah, there was at the Ministry of Education So when I got this request I was like I have no idea how to even start a tender process I don't know what to prepare that just seems too big to do it. Yeah, you don't have a defolition company I don't know if I can talk halfway around the world. I know I just built this site So I reach out to look and I said hey look, I've got this lead What should I do? Should I just leave it like I don't know what to do? Yeah, look said Wow, you should go for it. I just got some sort of a confirmation the confidence Maybe I should give it a go So what I did is I reach out to a local contractor that of course is fully qualified We actually probably spoken on a phone before so and he's all in on this project And he didn't mention that maybe the chance of success is not that high, but we will give a go So I just actually my English is actually not my first language, so my writing sucks Imagine me submitting the government tender so I have to hire someone Ask my VA to help me out to sort of tidy up the older document Lots of like safety or the thing like a kind of a formal process Yeah, it's very tedious having said that I got a dumb and we submit the application and three months later One day just out of the blue and I boom I received email saying that Well, congratulations. You are the successful Better for the school project for the Ministry of Education Wow, yeah, and of course we did finish that project. I think for that particular lead I got paid for over five thousand dollars just for that Yeah, that's really a cool story of like creating something out of nothing And really a win-win for everybody because this company now got this big job Big enough that they were able to pay you a five thousand dollar commission for sending them that lead That was it typical to structure It as kind of like on a commission basis You know, we'll pay you a percentage of the total billing or a flat fee based on whatever work we book Or I think what Luke was describing was more like look 500 a thousand fifteen hundred bucks a month like we'll just send you all the leads that we get through the site Just to make it like easier and more consistent and like not have to track on a performance basis on the stuff So I do both I prefer the flat fee So actually majority of my website that I do a flat fee deal is just so much easier There's no tracking there's only a few side I do commission one is the demolition Only because is high ticket because each job could be over hundred K complete and Sometimes the sales cycle are super long because imagine if you have to demolish a building And that involves like a console consent this connection or the service it's just very Sometimes we can complete a job that the leads actually came in last year So and that's how long the sales cycle can be so usually it's a lower volume a higher ticket So for that particular niche I do the commission base But the rest absolutely I do flat fee it just so much easier Okay, yeah this is similar to we did an episode with Link Moser who was doing high-end lead generation for real estate agents And the drawback was you had to have a real estate license to be able to legally earn a commission on those referrals But it was similar like hey I don't need to do a ton of these because one multi-million dollar property It could be worth 40-50 thousand dollars in commission But this is a way to kind of broaden that idea and no real estate license required So it sounds like you like the demolition niche something I never would have considered What makes a good niche for the rank and rent model? I like something that's service-based that you don't have a storefront Basically like a plumber, the concrete guy or rurfa you go through the client side to work So it's not that people come into your office So service-based business the second one is I really like those high ticket type of work Like concrete driveways, pedios, earthwork, demolition, roofing Nothing sexy nothing sexy but those niche work they work And that's because the value of these jobs is worth quite a bit to the service provider And so they're just like if we can get more leads in, if we can book up our calendar Then yeah it's worthwhile we'll just add this to our monthly marketing budget Yeah exactly I've done this smaller niche like handyman I probably would not do handyman again having said that I have a handyman side that's producing lots of lots of leads And business has been with me since the beginning when I started business And sometimes like a smaller niche like a gather cleaning can be good because it's high volume So you get like a 60 to 90 leads per month But the thing with a gather cleaning is sometimes you start a job with gather cleaning And you find out that gather needs a repair, the roof needs a repair, the roof needs a repaint So a small job can turn into a bigger job You just never know so my personal favorite is still a bigger ticket niche Do you like to go deep in one location or deep in one niche or like really a matter like trying to find the sweet spot of I'm going to do carpet cleaning in Dallas And then I'm going to build out all these other niches for Dallas Or I'm going to go do carpet cleaning in 100 different cities There's two way to tackle this So if is a big city like with a population of a million and above I like to go either niche down So for example if it's concrete I don't do or concrete I just specialize at certain type of concrete either as a stent concrete or concrete resurfacing Or concrete driveway so you have to be the specialist in the service that you provide I found you get a lot more success than just do something in general in the big city Now the bigger the city the more niche down for big city And if it's a big city also you can let's say for New York City It's just too big so you have to niche down to a different boroughs like Manhattan Or Brooklyn or Queens Long Island So you either niche down to the specialized area or niche down to the local area So that's a general rule I found anything above 50k should work The population wise I'm talking about 400k population wise seems to be a very sweet spot So it's not too big city your local competition is not that strong And you have enough volume the population produce enough leads Enough search volume that is going to help you to rendecide out Okay cool and I swear I was on Wikipedia at one point Like here's a list of cities with population you know 100,000 to 250,000 Or you can probably just ask chat GPT at this point Like come up with this list for me and there's a potential starting point Anything else they go so I'm trying to cross reference these cities Am I looking at the local competition yet or am I? Yes one thing I'm doing I'll just actually give you an example That just shows you the initial research Sometimes it's not about what you provide has to be good enough is about your competition So I'll give you an example of two side I built when I say That's in Wellington the capital city in New Zealand On the data shows that the landscaping business has a huge demand Very high volume the keyword difficulty is medium So you have to local competition So I thought given that how much demand I'm going to build a site for landscaping A few months down the track the site is ranking however the quality of leads And the number of leads are not great so we still have producing the leads But it's just not ideal So what I did is I built a specialized so I work this landscaping company And they do all the paving concrete artificial grass retaining And then what we did is we found the concrete driveway in the local area There's no company just do concrete driveway There's a lot of landscaping company there's a lot of concrete company Just does a very general general contractor But no company does concrete driveway So I built a site for concrete driveway in Wellington And that site blew up is completely blew up So what happens is this contractor if a client wants a concrete driveway down in front of the house Sometimes they're going to do the backyard They need a retaining work again they need a paving work again So it's finding the right market to get into therefore dominate So you're still providing the same service However it is extremely important to actually pick the niche That was very little competition Interesting so was the landscaping company that was doing the driveways? Yes so that's the same is it's the same company The local landscaping company there are few big ones that have a good name So they dominate the market so it's very helpful Someone small to medium business to just get into the the market Because when people think about landscaping there's a big name out there But if you change your arena to the concrete driveway Well no company is doing that like specializing that So it's just really easy to get into And you ended up getting all the landscaping work But through the right channel That's really interesting trying to find that back door That side door into the place like well it's maybe it's number six on our menu of service offerings But if I try to rank for general landscaping it's really tough But if I try and rank for concrete driveways I mean paving yeah a different just Yeah okay Special also niche yeah More with Mow in just a moment Including the tools she's using to evaluate the search competitiveness of a market And her local SEO ranking process right after this When you're hiring it feels amazing to finally close out a job search And hit the ground running with your new hire But what if you could get rid of the search part And just get matched with qualified candidates Well now you can with our sponsor indeed It's simple if you need the hire you need indeed The matching and hiring platform is trusted by over three and a half million businesses worldwide To connect with great talent faster And 93% of employers agree that indeed delivers the highest quality matches Compared to other job sites For my next hire I'm using indeed to tap into a talent pool of 350 million unique monthly visitors And what else is cool is indeed matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences So the more you use it the better it gets And how about this side hustle show listeners get a $75 sponsored job credit To get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/side hustleshow Just go to indeed.com/side hustleshow right now and support our show By saying you heard about indeed on this podcast Indeed.com/side hustleshow Terms and conditions apply need to hire you need indeed Isn't it a very more dreaded question than what's for dinner Meal planning and eating well to hit your nutrition goals Doesn't have to be complicated Our sponsor factor makes it easy by sending delicious, ready to eat, chef, crafted Dietitian approved meals right to your door Every week you got over 35 different menu options to choose from Including keto, calorie, smart vegan and veggie options And more some personal favorites of ours so far have been the garlic mushroom chicken ties And the Indian butter tofu These are restaurant quality meals ready in just two minutes No prep, no mess It's the perfect easy button solution For busy side hustlers and couples And it's not just dinner either Factor has nutrient-packed snacks, smoothies, breakfasts and more And hey, plans change which is why you can scale up or down your meals Or pause or reschedule your deliveries anytime Head to factormeals.com/sidehustle50 And use code side hustle50 to get 50% off your first box And two free wellness shots per box while your subscription is active That's code side hustle50@factormeals.com/sidehustle50 To get 50% off your first box and two free wellness shots Per box while subscription is active Big thanks to Factor for sponsoring the show Are there any tools or metrics that you're using to quantify that level of Local competition? I use tools, so I use SEM rush So I would looking at the keyword difficulty Even though the data is saying Anything above 20 It is still rankable and is still doable It should put like a moderate But I don't like to go through those niche Because if I'm going to spend the same amount of time and money I want to go for the easy target So under 20 on the metric? Under 20 Yeah, under 20 Is there a minimum search volume that you're looking at? Yep, I would look at the combined search volume to be 150 and the bath At least 100 bath So let's say if it's a bigger ticket niche like a diminishing Then I think 100 is enough But for a small ticket niche And I would looking at a higher volume probably 200 But maybe 150 combined He would volume is a criteria That's surprisingly low to me Like only 100 people are searching for this every month But if the jobs are $100,000 Like if they're searching for it like a break Well qualified lead if it does come through So that does Yeah, you don't actually need that much of search volume for a bigger ticket Yeah, and maybe companies are ignoring it because it is low volume And telling you the Wellington, the Conquered Driver Company, Wellington Sometimes the search volume is not really reliable Especially in a smaller country Maybe in the US is more accurate That Wellington Conquered Driver, there's only 30 search volume As extremely low But sometimes you just have to use your intuition Like looking at the city's population Yeah, it's impossible to have that low volume And something's wrong So just do it anyway So Yeah, there's a value of ranking at the top of Google In whatever small niche it is Whatever small city it is Like if you can get to the top Good things can happen And so that's kind of the next phase of this conversation is like Okay, I find the niche and city and competitiveness combination That looks attractive And then what happens next in terms of securing a domain And like building out that site So we were talking about the keyword research And knowing your local competition I believe that's the most important step So I don't actually give this job to VA I actually do this research part myself The rest is pretty streamlined So the next is you find a domain That is the most I prefer to use the domain name that contains the keyword So whatever the niche you're doing if it's roofing You would have the roofer or roofing Those keyword in your domain So it's more of like a partial match of the niche you're doing So you find your domain In the city name too or just service Yeah, absolutely I make sure all the domain name contains the city name And niche name And I got to imagine for a lot of smaller towns Those domains may be more readily available Or maybe they're cheaper on the second hand Market versus New York roofing Or something like that I got to imagine that's like super premium Already claimed But it's like wellingtonNZ concrete driveways Like probably available for 10 bucks or whatever Yep, I'm surprised Because every time while I'm using that domain Trying to search for domain And it's always available and I was shocked Why not? Yeah, they're like never happened It's like all the domains I want are already taken So that's a cool element of this niche Or of this state hustle Yeah, but the regional country level domain is easier to get Okay, so what happens next? Next you get domain And I use WordPress I fail WordPress is easy I started with a Weebly But when I decided to scale And I switched to the WordPress I use a template And you just upload a template Swap all the content Find the photos Don't get any photos from Google Because those photos are not Maybe have a copyright So I make sure all the photos are either purchased From a photo stock website Or Their copy rights free And then you build a site I contract all the building part to my VA And she's really really good So she actually taken care of the building process So you build a site And the after you create all the social media Like Facebook Building the citation And just started ranking process And I do have a people that's helped me With the link building Making the block comments Building the backlinks That's all the technical part All right, well let's unpack each of those steps Because there's a lot there On the content side So your VA is building out The content side Like these are the services we provide Like this is about the company What do you put on this page When realistically there is no company behind it yet Okay Yeah What I do actually that's what I love from Luke I did not create this process I just follow someone that's already had the result And start doing it Now in terms of content I would basically Found out All the local Like I would put a keyword in For that business And the city's name And Collect the top 10 competitors That's already ranking well And I pull the data into SEM rush And then Get all the key within Then you analyze it For example let's say Stamped concrete Or roof repair Has a very good search volume And I will put that in As one of the service Provide So we create content Not It's work out better that way So I found lots of business They like to write about how good they are What they provide But without knowing the market So what we do here is We research the market Find out the service that's really highly demand People need it Therefore Pick the one And throw to the website And Yeah and then your website Literally become a Wikipedia Of everything people need to know about that Business Okay so if I'm understanding this It's looking at Plugging my top 5 or 10 competitors Into an SEO tool to see What content of theirs Is already ranking And like what are they created content around And then just trying to match that Like doing the same or better To build out this site Yeah and it's about finding the service That people Are interested And lots of people searching for And have a relatively Lower difficulty to rank And through all the business Onto your site Because you can say Okay this competitor Have offered a few services But not others But the other competitor Has a certain service That this one doesn't provide So your site become the Wikipedia Like your website become The one stop shop For everything that people are looking for Therefore Whatever the search comes to your site You have to skip the about page We're like We're a third generation family owned company And here's the picture of Me and my dad And we run this thing Like You have to Can I leave all that stuff blank for this time? Yeah Personally I don't like to provide light Like you can say you're like a family Local fan You can say you're locally owned business But personally I don't want to put any Information that's false So I like to keep the website Pretty generic Unless I found a local contractor to work with And then we can tailor make the content To be more specific to that business Writing a story Because a story a personal branding Always works better than generic content But just to start with Something very generic would work Yeah And is there a call to action on the site Book a quote, contact us now You know call this toll free number What happens if somebody lands on the site So very big call to action So that's the whole point right You want to convert the clients Whoever clicking to your website So big numbers So Numbers on the top And I want to make sure every page Because then we search you from They made and found you from a Service page not your home page So every page would contain a quote request form So it's easy for the potential clients to Just send in query To us So definitely quote form Court of action numbers Make sure every page have that So people can contact you What are you used for the Phone numbers and Or the phone answering There's lots of phone company provider service So I use Twilil And lots of people use Quarral I think there are just so many Company provider service You can get a virtual form number And then just using that And I would program the form number And with a bit of a sort of a welcome To the business and press one to connect Or press one for Roofer Yeah you can program and make it Looks at least present like a real Business Okay so you have a like a virtual Answering service would say Concrete driveways Wellington how may help you How may address your call or something Yeah so I just program the welcome message In the beginning I answer the phone call So I just pretend I'm the office lady I'm the reception Okay and so you can you but you can tell like What site because it's going to be probably Different phone number for yeah Yeah okay sorry yeah now I got it Yes there's a function Nellity that you can set up What we call a whisper message So if I get a phone call I would hear a little whisper message saying New leads from Wellington Oh okay okay so you know how to answer the phone Okay Otherwise with a 40's site I have no idea Where is this caller coming from But yeah you can identify Where's the call coming from Everything's tracked recorded It's easy Okay And then you have to Become a very good actor actress In saying My guy who does our bids is out right now Let me get back to you or Sorry we're booked up on that date But So you kind of have a critical mass Then you got to go find Service provider supplier to go out and fulfill the work Yeah sometimes it's a general rash So like people calling Oh I've got this urgent job Like for example tree I have a few trees that Yeah then he's someone doing the job urgently So I immediately have to drop everything I was doing And look for a trying to find the contract That's can provide this work It's fun Yeah actually yeah he don't want to get a bad review Is that so this person blew me off Or they were available Yep it's so easy actually Yeah people read bad reviews this days More with me now in just a moment Including her surprising link building strategy And how she connects with reputable suppliers For these services There would be tenants for these rank and rent sites Right after this In the ever evolving world of side hustles and entrepreneurship Staying organized any efficient is key And that's where our sponsor notion comes in Forget the chaos of duct taping A bunch of different tools together And constantly switching between them Notion It's your all-in-one solution to supercharge Your productivity and streamline your workflow How it works is notion combines your notes Docs and projects into one space That's simple and beautifully designed And the 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It's right there in the name So get the side hustle with some muscle With the card that puts more point earning power in your pocket Apply for the US bank business altitude power card Today at usbank.com/bizpower That's usbank.com/bizpowerbizpower Limited time offer The creditor and issuer of this card is US bank National Association pursue it to a license from Mastercard International Incorporated Mastercard is a registered trademark And the circles design is a trademark of Mastercard International Incorporated Some restrictions may apply Yeah Okay, I do want to circle back to the finding reputable, reliable, qualified suppliers in a second But go back to the SEO process we're talking about Building out first this library of content becoming the go-to authority in the space By going broader than anybody else in the niche Next thing you mentioned was creating social handles and citations Can you explain what that is how that works? Yeah, so if you can So every site I would have a Facebook page I think in New Zealand it's slightly different By in the US you want to create all the citations like Yelp or Google my business And lots of like a business directories So that would help with the ranking Because you are telling the internet that your site is legit Like you're operating and you've got lots of social signals from a different site That's supporting that And therefore build a local relevance and trust authority So that's the best thing I do for every site But going down a little bit deeper is to rank So is the backlinks That's a part that I personally really hate doing Because super super tedious And time consuming Yeah, you have to outreach I know Who wants to just randomly link to a copy driveway? Say it, you know No, that's the thing And like you have to outreach to the different like a blog Some business I think that's the hardest part There's so many people out there saying that they can do it I hired probably 10 different people A claim that they know how to do this But they really have no idea and not producing any results So finally I had a few Yeah, it took me a long time to find them But once you find them They know exactly what to do That will help your website to rank Are there one or two link building tactics that you're finding effective today? Yeah, I like blog comments Because there's a few Yeah 2024, we're talking blog comments Like is this for real? Yes, yeah And who's there read the blogs But lots of blogs still have a very high authority Okay Even those probably like no follow Because it's user generated content Like that still has some weight There still has some value Yeah, yeah And usually they're free The key is you want to make sure that your comments are not spammy So yeah, it's actually relevant to what they blogged about And write about your opinion or your suggestions Yeah, and usually if you do that The comments actually will stay It's just one of the easiest A way to build a backlinks All right, that's surprising But what else have you got? Yes, every Yeah, and then attach your business at the end Therefore you get a link All right, anything else on the link building side That's working today That's actually my favorite So I do lots of blog comments But the thing is the key things You want to have a variation of the keyword Or what we call anchor tags You can't have the same anchor tags That's not enough So you kind of want to have variation For example, if it's concrete driveway In Auckland I would say Auckland concrete or concrete contractors Or just some URL Random URL You really want to keep Like under the name field Because that's what we ended up being linked Yeah, yeah Keep it a little bit of a trend And rather than just completely Like an exact match of your business Okay All right That's really surprising That's a second It's still work Still works I want to go back to the Google by business things For a while I don't know if they still do But like they You had to mail a postcard To this physical address To verify You were Who you said you were And you were doing business at this location Is that still a thing or how do you get around that Yeah, that's a part I think Google actually made it so much More difficult For people that's doing recurrent Because it's a lot harder So in old days We just need to find a address And the Google will mail you the postcard And your Google business profile Become live Now Google does lots of video verification That's a part When expression of a stage You don't have any contractor To work with So you can't really create a video And especially the niche I'm doing lots of them Are like a You know Like a hardcore Like an ex-veasure Or concrete Sometimes you have to show the tools The vans I don't have them So I think it's definitely got A lot more difficult To create a business profile Having said that That has not stopped me Ranking the site Because You still got the organic search result And that brings lots of business And what I do is After This site is already producing the leads And I find the local contractor To work with And like I work with them To create a Google business profile With the real business name And everything And that would work Okay, got it Yeah, so you You mean I'm able to get that early on No So it just orders changed Yeah On the link building front Episode 534 Was with Jeremy Poland A really popular episode They got great feedback On some creative Link building strategies In that one So if you're wondering what to listen to Next you can go check that one out That's really fascinating stuff I'm going to forego the map listing But even just with the organic text Based listings in Google That could be enough But now you gotta go out And find a supplier Here's what I found It's like the service providers That are any good They're not necessarily hungry for business They're like, dude We're booking a month out Like, are you getting line We've raised our rates They're not necessarily hurting for leads Yeah If you're trying to Now cross references with an area That's a low competition It's like, are there enough players In that space to even Pay you and like, would do a good job If they went out to a customer site Like, this is like the other piece of the puzzle Is like finding somebody to go fulfill the work I have to say that All the technical side building Ranking to the number one Right now this is Because we know all the process We know exactly how to get it on top This is the easiest part The hardest part is actually Finding the business That's a right fit Like you said If a business already very established Yeah, they don't need your leads They're booked up six months in advance And those one that's Like the cowboys doing a bad job They may be hungry for a job But they're not the right person That you need to partner with Right, right It is tricky I have to say Not every niche and location You can find a right fit And that takes a lot of trial In error That's why I'm going back to I personally like the city that's 400k above that Because you have enough business to test out Okay, they'll have enough different players Yeah, yeah And especially I think in the US The situation is slightly better But in Australia and New Zealand There's such a shortage of labor I think it's true everywhere Like just a few more people going into the trades Yeah, I was just talking to a business owner yesterday He's in a roof painting business He wants to scale the business He wants to hire like a Seven new guys And that those younger guys They're just not reliable And he have to Sort of make sure he's not Grow the business so fast Because just you can't find a reliable person To do the work But the thing is once you find the right one It just work perfectly I literally was an interview A business owner yesterday He was the gothic cleaning business in Auckland There's a matter of finding The right business that provides good job But not yet Bit expert in marketing And you actually help them grow I'm like I get lots of joy out of this So he was saying before using our service And he has to compete with other competitors With the price So he is immigrant He's Chinese He works really hard He's potential customers Or the inner Chinese community But since he's using the site Like all of sudden He's got people from everywhere requesting a service Because he actually provided a very good service So he's now not only has to chase for the service But the clients find him And he raised the profit margin to 20% Therefore he can provide a better service to the clients And he makes more money and he can grow the business So I think it's a matter of finding You will find a contractor that's a perfect match And also I have I think one of my concrete Site I found this contractor I've been working with the sky since the beginning He does amazing concrete work So all the reviews that he complete Like the customer pulls the pictures Very super happy with the result But he was working for a bigger company before And not getting paid that much But he has amazing skills And he treat like a good customer Good manner It's the right match Once you find a person And you are helping them so much And of course they're helping me as well grow my business I think it's definitely the winged situation If you find right person It sounds like it's a matter of finding that person Who maybe is Or that company that's maybe early in their business They know the skill They know how to provide the service And they have good reviews From whatever business they've been able to get But just don't have the time, energy Or expertise to do the marketing side of things And it's like okay if we could just get more people In the front door and more people in the top of the funnel Like we could do really well And so that's where they turn to a service like yours And so what is that outreach pitch Or maybe like the tree example Like I got a hot bleed on the line I got to go find a service provider And it's like do you want this lead Do you I got more where this came from How do you set up that Initial outreach and kind of explain What it is that you do And how much it costs and all of that It sounds very scary in the beginning So you just caught quoting people But what I realized is I've got the leads on hand It's very hard for the business saying Well I've got a tree remover job And do you want it It's very hard for them say No we don't want it If you get the answer which means this business is really Doing well they don't need your leads So most of the business will say Actually yes I think it makes the conversation Or the code call so much easier When you get something in hand Some value to offer And I usually would send them a few free leads As a good faith And I don't want to ask for any money or anything I want them to test out See this is working for them If they made money and they like the leads They know the leads are real They are generally more open to have a conversation with you Like do you want to continue to get the leads And then I invite them to the Zoom meeting To explain to them exactly what I do And how is the fee or the structure The deal works with everything Okay it's like the free samples at Costco Hey you had a taste now if you want to hold back Yeah if you like it Yeah bye-bye more Or sign up for the monthly package And I tend to not talking about Like I'm not worried about whether I have to make money from the business I could even maybe send them a few more Like I'm not super clinging on the money part I think to me Finding the right business, the right partners is the most important thing Having the trial period sending the leads to them It is also an opportunity for me to know How they handle the customer Are they the right fit So it's not that they choose me I have to choose them as well It's a matter of finding the right fit for both sides Right and because ideally you want somebody Where it becomes Hopefully more hands off Where it's just like yeah they just you're on auto pay for your $1,000 A month and like the phone now directly rings their phone So they can handle it And you don't have to be involved I imagine if everybody is happy in that relationship That could be a really sticky customer I know you've been at it for two and a half years Like do you have a sense of how long a service provider sticks around Or like is churn a thing here I have a so much majority probably 80% of my customer They've been with me since the beginning I started business and they never like it Because if you provide so much value Why they would stop However the turn does happen So I had a business they actually just got a few big commercial jobs And they want to focus on that I'm gonna say good on you Glad that it can help you get big jobs And help you grow I'm happy for them And I don't do any like contract or anything Just month by month Because I feel If I'm not providing value They don't find the value of my service Why I have to pin them down is just not how I believe the relationship would work What do you use for the payment processing or the recurring billing Stripe make everything so much easier Do you ever get the feedback or maybe the customers would be Or the service providers would maybe be on the receiving end Like would they show up wearing the polo shirt that says Like they're pre-existing company brand name But like well the website said something else Like does that mismatch ever happen I would tell the business owner in advance that may happen So what I tell them to do is when they answer the phone Or when they returning the customer's phone call You say something more generic Like for example New York City roofing So it's not really branded name Or they answer the phone call with Yeah something really generic Because when people calling you They expect the same name That they calling the website on But then when they set up the estimation Ready to send the invoice And the contractor can actually explain to the business That the website they call that is their marketing site Or they can say This is our company And that I'm in partnership with the Legion site Usually if you're providing good service Build a trust People don't really care It's really weird that people say Oh that's not going to work for me This is the deal breaker I have not come across with that situation Yeah we had kind of a similar conversation with Johnny Robinson who had this Window cleaning business largely built on the back of subcontractors And the feedback was like Dude you're going to trash your reputation Like you're going to show up Like we're in their own Window cleaning company Not orange window cleaning And it's like so much of Your reputation happens online now It's the booking experience It's the website experience It's the reviews that you have If they show up and do a good job I don't care what you're doing I'm sure what their truck rap says Like it's like is it a good work It doesn't really matter Since you mentioned that Maybe this business model works better in the Business that's no so brand driven Like who cares about who does your window cleaning Doesn't have to be a specific company or name As long as you're doing good job So a business like that might be easier But let's say Maybe if you have a side for orthopedic surgeon That may I don't know I haven't test out that Particularly niche yet But Imagine it could be a little bit difficult Yeah So then you're not gonna trust just anybody too I slice of you but that makes sense Is it 100% organic for you or you do anything With paid ads in partnership with larger companies Or like we really want to monopolize more of this Page one real estate, anything like that No I have tried So people doing two different ways So some people that are not doing ads And therefore is so much faster to scale your business Yes you can do it I guess they are a good and bad side I think doing ads you will go to business faster However you really have to be very very good at sales I was not in the beginning So I just go by everything organic And I feel like I have the time to Just take the time to build my side Until the size that to produce in the result But having said that is a paying ads a good idea I think yes It would work for some people Yeah especially on those Commission based jobs Where if the service provider is happy paying you A thousand bucks a month just for what you get an organic I guess that would probably be an extra layer of complexity Like we are also going to manage ads on top of that For an additional fee or you have to work that out But the reason I ask is we get this magazine I don't have one I mean it looks like a magazine But it is like the Seattle area homeowners guide And there is no content in this thing It is like just pure ads That is like this bathroom renovation specialist Or this backyard patio specialist And I am wondering a lot of them have kind of like Very generic sounding names Or sometimes they have like almost a templatized little Half-page ad I was like I wonder if these are The Legion yes Yeah That is possible Yeah So there is the offline Legion happening as well If you have these local nailers So you know you got dozens of these sites Running at this point What's a day in the life look like for you today Well the great thing about doing this Is you are not limited to the location I could be in New Zealand I could be in New York Last week I was in LA I could be in Miami doing this in Australia So I love traveling that is the reason I love what I am doing right now Are you actively building out new sites Or is kind of a matter of like I am going to Trans-rank the ones that aren't quite to page one Yeah like where is the time go that is spent on work Yeah right now I am not Since I have already got so many Not as many as I wanted But I have already got some website Some site is still a ranking process So I definitely want to get those sites up to speed And therefore for me to be able to rent it out I feel like I have tested quite different niches And I would like to stick to the niches that I know I would definitely have the success And be able to rent it out I am still building a few other sites That seem completely different But those sites that I feel my own contact that they already have the business They want me to help out with SEO and lead generation process So I am not as actively building more sites At the moment Unless the business owner want me to And this became a full-time thing for you In terms of me full-time income I don't like it There is no other day job that is expecting you to call in Yeah I was working a full-time I have to say To get a started is not easy Nothing is easy So I started doing this when I was working a full-time And then I really just have to make a lot of phone calls Replying to customers, doing lunch break, doing all the studies To this point, I don't have to work a full-time job That's great Was there a point where you felt comfortable calling a quits? I think when I made enough money to replace my full-time work That's the point that I feel okay Yeah, that's a fantastic place to be I think last year I spent like two and a half months in China Spending time with my mom, I'm Chinese My mom was like When are you leaving? Like you're just hanging around here Don't you need to work? Like you know She felt like I'm like a bum And I said, well, mom, actually I worked really hard to get to this point That's just funny because she said, oh Before that you can always visit Have a time for like two weeks holiday Now you're staying for two months And you're still hanging around here That's funny, it reminds me of my friend Dustin Heiner Has these shirts that say successfully unemployed And I try and make a point to where that Whenever I'm going skiing like in the middle of the week Like oh successfully unemployed I feel like you would be a match for that as well Anything that surprised you over the last couple of years of doing this? Definitely Initially when I signed up, looks cool I started doing it and I thought okay, I'm just gonna learn All the marketing as your kind of skills And that's what I expected in the beginning To this point I realized Well, I actually learned so much more than just the technical process I have learned, yeah, it's just maybe sales, maybe communication And also hiring because it's impossible to do everything yourself How to hire people, how to be resourceful, how to solve the problems And I realized the word is never lack of talent Because every time when you actually post a job On artwork or some sort of a platform There's hundreds of people applying for it That makes me realize the skills important But the most important thing is actually to generate the clients Have the business Then you can find someone can fulfill the work The hardest part is to actually create a job And create the clients, have the demand That actually change my perspective Yeah, it feels good to be on that hiring side Yeah, I feel like there's so much skills that I've learned Through the way that way more than just the technical skills Yeah, that's really cool What's next for you for Blackbird SEO? What's got you excited these days? I definitely want to grow my company bigger I do have a big dream The other things that I realized is I think for the experience for the past few years I do get lots of joy out of talking to the business owners See a business starting from maybe one-man operation But very honest business that you can see them grow so much And I do enjoy that process to talk into them And also especially for the immigrant I'm an immigrant, I went to New Zealand, was young And lots of contractors are their immigrant They don't know how to get a business And I particularly enjoy to help those people actually How to grow the business, how to actually get They are not just limited to their own community They actually opened themselves and to the bigger audience The mainstream client-based That's really fulfilling Yeah, really rewarding to be able to turn around and help Like, hey, I learned the stuff And now I can help other people go and implement it And make a bigger impact on their own lives And the lives of their customers I think that's really cool So get Blackbird SEO.com Check me out over there Let's wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side-house automation Just get us started Thinking about it is not going to get you any result And take action Isn't that true? Thinking about it won't get you there But if you don't think about it, probably not going to start it So make sure to just take some action So now again, really appreciate you joining me It's Blackbird SEO.com A couple of notes before we wrap up Number one, I thought it was interesting Was to think international Like you had some on-the-ground experience in New Zealand But like, I think a lot of US listeners, US entrepreneurs Like are very focused And to be fair, there's a lot of opportunity here But hey, maybe it's lower competition Somewhere else or maybe you have some connection To a different international market And that could be an interesting way to go The other one was to look for those side doors I thought that was really unique Like, hey, landscaping is too competitive But concrete paving or driving or driveways Was less competitive Even though it was the same You know, I'm pulling from the same pool of service providers I thought that was a really interesting way to go As a way to Shortcut your... Your time would just make it an easier road To get to the top of Google on that And then the third thing was, you know, really You know, the meat and potatoes of this business Is the long-term partnerships with the service providers So like, doing the vetting and the diligence And being a trusted marketing partner On that front really is what drives this You want to make it passive? You want to make it hands off? You have to find somebody who is good At what they do really understands the value of this relationship So those were my takeaways Again, your listener only bonus For this week is a list of 25 rank and rent niches We probably covered half of those So I'll add maybe a lot some more Maybe we'll up that number But rank and rent niches to kickstart your research process You can download that for free at the show notes For this episode at sidehustlnation.com/myaomia Or just follow the link in the episode description You'll get right over there Big thanks to Mao for sharing her insight Big thanks to you for supporting the advertisers That help make this content free for everyone As always you can hit up sidehustlnation.com/deals For all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place That's it for me Thanks so much for tuning in If you find any value in the show The greatest compliment is to share it with a friend So fly her off a text message or two Hey, we should totally start this Until next time let's go out there And make something happen And I'll catch you in the next edition of the side hustle show Hustle on